Meeting Minutes:05.28.09

Meeting minutes: May 28, 2009

Participants: Kevin and Amy Daly, Jeff Gerber, Brent, Hans, Emmanuelle, Lisa, Michael, Jerome, and Susan Holland

Length: 1.5 hours

 

Summary of Discussion:

 

Overall Energy Requirements

 

Brent: According to the initial energy needs study, the home and green house require 16kw?  Panels producing 15 kW can be placed on the master bedroom roof, leaving 5kw extra, as 20 KW is what we can produce

Panels with 2-axis tracking can improve energy production by 30%. However, present a few concerns including maintenance issues during freezing temperatures.

 The PV system will also have to revolve around the geothermal needs.  However

We cannot exceed 20 KW, which is the maximum allowance for 2 residences. It will require 2 inverters and 2 meters to be approved by Jim Chappell.

 The solar system can be designed so that a string can be attached to later add a series of panels.

 The current load estimate does not include electricity to be used for a car.

 Batteries could be installed in order to utilize excess instead of selling back excess of a third of the cost. However batteries require a lot of maintenance and don’t last very long (new ones have 8-10 years warranty). Also it would require a room or a big box within a heated room (the box should be insulated and vented).  With a propane generator and the grid has a back up, batteries might not be necessary.

 Since natural gas and electricity cost about the same, an electric boiler might be a better choice, allow for an offset down the road.

The boilers currently present in the house are 83% efficient, if they will only be acting as a back up, there isn’t a great need to change now, however replacing the 2 existing boilers by very efficient small boiler  that is 95% efficient would provide space for the geothermal/solar mechanical system. 

 Typically a boiler as 5 heat exchange stages, improving its efficiency with each stage, and thus allowing for up to 10% reduction in operating cost by switching to amore efficient boilers  (a new boiler costs about $4,000).If you sell back what you have used you only sell a third as the law stands now.

 

 

 

Green House Energy requirements:

 

If the green house underground heating system is not sufficient how do we supplement?

Jerome thinks that the fan and automated venting would be the only use of electricity necessary in the green house  (400-500w maximum). 2 or 3 fans will be necessary, requiring about 120 watts each. 

Very little lightening should be used in order not confuse the natural photosynthesis intake pattern of the plants. 

A couple of small 24-volt controls for operating awning windows will be necessary (operating with a rod, one motor can link several windows to open and close simultaneously).

Michael mentioned that a thermostat operating insulated shades might also be needed.

Jerome thinks that 2 circulations fans might be needed to pump the hot air.  Although, the water tank in the green house will also help keep the temperature more constant.

If grown, hydroponics will not require much energy.

 A water catchment system might also require energy for a pump.

 Someone should be present most of the time to check on the green house at least for the first year.   The green house will not work on 100% on its own.

 Every control increases cost, and might break down, should try to keep simple systems.

 Michael: Brings cooler air in summer time and back up heat in the winter. Nighttime might require additional back up

 Jeff: Jerome is talking about air circulation within the green house, no additional penetrations or exhaust.

 Fresh air is not needed for the propagation of plants within a close system. Jerome never has had problems: You don’t have to worry that the plants would suffocate, circulating is more important. Remember Plants Produce oxygen and use CO2

 

Solar thermal/Geothermal

 

We might use only 4 solar geothermal panels, the best location for the panels for solar thermal? If we go with Geothermal do we need the solar thermal?

 Brent: Potential yes, for the dump load of the shower? Heat pump max depending- 125degree water is the maximum-.  

 Lisa: What about using Gas on demand system. Brent says that does not work well above 5,000feet.  Hard to get 8 degree rise. Rinnai Brand a good choice. Works Well many Place. Hans thinks it is worth researching

 Net Zero is the goal? Will not getting rid of gas stove. Hot water usage 20 gallon of water per day/per person. 

 Hot water for 6 people (including a person leaving in the green house)

 We need a system that takes the water above 120degrees.

 4 parts to total load:

Envelope (70 and 68) most house is usually ET at 64

Ventilation

Hot water

Miscellaneous heating load

 

During its; initial load estimate, Brent got giant numbers—20%off top, after taking out, sizing for peak, maximum load now 200,00btu per hour

 How much diversity can I get away with, slice of the equipment and still make it the duration load.  10 well 350 feet deep will cover 100%, which we have room for.

 Hans went to look at solar system he put in, asked about well drillers, does not know exactly about pricing, mechanical guy, don’t’ have own in house drilling Adrienne Major Heating Steamboat. They do functional performance testing, monitor the drillers.

 Will be able to take advantage of price reduction for the drilling going with Major.

 Notes:

John Grove will come on Monday at 10:00am on Monday. Emmanuelle met with Mike Zopf who is open to a whole water system gray/black water system; Mike will be contacting john to talk about specific technical aspects.

 

Note: Let’s try to use the blog more often for conversations and keep conference

 

Water catchment systems: Lisa had suppliers that make metric systems 

 

Pilot project 10 projects in Colorado need to state representative for house under 3,000squre feet.

 Lisa mentioned systems being used in Vail using grey water for toilets.

 

 

 

 

 

Action Items:

 

1.Susan will research durable tracking equipment.  (E.g. installations in the Stagecoach area and in the Aspen area through Solar Energy International and Sun Sense (Scott Ely) in Carbondale.

 

2.Break out session between Michael, Jerome and Lisa to plan for the venting system, including the eastern, upper and southern vents.

 

3.Everyone needs to develop an accurate inventory of every piece of equipment to be used in conjunction with the energy consumption, including schedules of usage –peaks and lows-, and wattages.

 

4.Lisa will research the energy requirement necessary for a hydroponic system.

 

5.Hans, Emmanuelle and Lisa will do a little more research electric on-demand water showers.

 

6.Jerome, Lisa and Michael will start developing bed design and planting plans for Jeff to review and put into the model in order to assure that no structures need to be moved – could move the columns if needed-.

 

7.Mike will post the link to the new legislation and research permit for water catchment.

 

8.Emmanuelle will look at a way to send a notification to everyone when someone makes a new post on the blog.

 

9. Lisa will research water catchment and development in Vail

 

10. John grove will be in town Monday @ 10 AM

11. Lisa and emmanuelle will provide a plan by June 15th for enhancing  portions the landscape